In a revealing 90-minute episode of their podcast, Conversations with Kath, released on Wednesday, the 27-year-old non-binary individual, who prefers they/them pronouns, opened up about their emotional journey following the split from Siwa. They recounted the pivotal moment when they decided to part ways during the wrap party for Celebrity Big Brother UK, shortly after Siwa’s participation in the reality show.

Ebbs initially disclosed their breakup in a now-deleted TikTok video shared on April 26, revealing that Siwa ended their relationship at the CBB UK wrap party. This announcement triggered speculation suggesting that Siwa’s close friendship with Love Island alum Chris Hughes may have contributed to the separation.

During their podcast, Ebbs reflected deeply on the public nature of their split. They expressed their thoughts on Hughes’ relationship with Siwa, addressed allegations of grooming, and shared their emotional struggles throughout this difficult time.

Ebbs shared that they were initially reluctant to attend the wrap party, revealing they experienced a profound emotional reaction upon seeing a clip of Siwa and Hughes together in bed, which caused them to stop watching the show altogether. Additionally, they were grappling with the grief of losing a close friend around that time. Ultimately, their family encouraged them to attend the CBB UK wrap party, although they chose not to appear in the final episode.

Ebbs then recounted the moment they reunited with Siwa after her time in the house.

“As soon as she was off camera, the welfare team took her straight to the room where I was waiting. I had watched it all unfold on TV, but I was just in a room waiting for her,” they explained. “We hugged and said, ‘Oh my God, hello…’”

“We embraced, shared a kiss, and simply held onto each other for what felt like an eternity. I think I was crying during that moment,” Ebbs continued. “At one point, I asked her, ‘Are we good like this?’ and she replied, ‘Yeah.’ I felt relieved and we kissed again; it was evident she was still processing everything she had just experienced.”

According to Ebbs, the welfare team was conveying their feelings to Siwa, including their hesitations about attending the after-party and their disinterest in meeting Hughes.

Ebbs recalled a conversation with Siwa about their plans to attend the after-party, admitting they sensed something was off and felt “weird.” They shared their account of the events at the now-infamous after-party, noting that their father had encouraged them to join the festivities.

“I walked in with a mindset of ‘Let’s party’… but she had this shocked look on her face,” they recalled.

“It wasn’t surprise, just a feeling that something was wrong. I immediately approached her and asked, ‘Are you okay?’ She responded, ‘No, no, no.’ … She sat down, and I followed, asking her, ‘What’s going on, babe? What’s wrong?’ That’s when she began to break up with me.”

“I was sitting there, feeling extremely anxious, honestly, and utterly devastated that this was happening,” they added, expressing their sense of shock as they tried to process the unfolding situation.

Ebbs elaborated, “The conversation felt endless, and I couldn’t even tell how long it lasted. I guessed it was quite a while because before I knew it, someone came in, and we had to leave. It was challenging because I kept saying to her, ‘Just give it a moment,’ not because I wanted to save the relationship, but because everyone has the right to break up whenever they feel it’s necessary. Unfortunately, that’s just a sad aspect of life.”

Ebbs pointed out that Siwa was unaware of the emotional struggles they faced while she was on Celebrity Big Brother UK.

“But I knew she didn’t have a clue about what I had been going through. She had no idea of my struggles. I didn’t want to bring that into our conversation,” they expressed. “But I was pleading, ‘Can you please just give this a moment? Because you don’t know what’s been happening on my end.’”

“She mentioned things like the letter and the fact that I wasn’t present at the live show were like nails in the coffin for her,” Ebbs added. “I kept trying to explain to her, ‘Babe, please, there’s so much context. Everything has context.’”

They further mentioned that they had to confront the cheating allegations head-on during their discussion.

“At one point, I told her, ‘Babe, there’s a rumor online suggesting that you’ve cheated on me on national television,’ … she responded by suggesting that her reasons for breaking up with me had already been established before any of these other issues arose,” Ebbs recounted.

For her part, Siwa has previously stated during an appearance on The Viall Files podcast that the problems in her relationship with Ebbs had begun long before she started filming Celebrity Big Brother UK.

On their podcast, Ebbs candidly shared their thoughts about Siwa’s close friendship with Chris Hughes. While emphasizing their belief that the nature of their relationship is “platonic,” Ebbs expressed concerns that their interactions may have crossed certain boundaries.

“I never looked at those two and thought, ‘They’re going to run off into the sunset together,’” they clarified. “However, I did think that their relationship was crossing some lines and was becoming something that felt inappropriate to me. I never believed they would actually run off together, but it felt like something was off.”

“Even when she mentioned that to me at the after-party, it wasn’t like I had this clear reasoning of, ‘Oh, it’s because of Chris,’” they continued. “What it illustrated to me was that their connection wasn’t entirely platonic. I will publicly state that I believe it is platonic now, but I can’t speak for either of them as I don’t have ongoing communication with them.”

“What struck me was that if there was even a fleeting moment where one might question their relationship, it suggested to me that their interactions were not purely friendly,” Ebbs added.

In another segment of the podcast, Ebbs discussed the controversy surrounding the video in which they disclosed their breakup with Siwa.

After recalling the lengthy five-hour conversation they had following the wrap party, Ebbs mentioned that they received Siwa’s permission to share their breakup on social media.

“I don’t mind if you say we’ve broken up. That’s your journey; do what you need to do,” Ebbs recounted Siwa’s words.

Despite allegedly receiving approval to post on social media, Ebbs revealed that Siwa later reached out to say that Hughes was “upset.”

“JoJo texted me and said Chris was upset, claiming that I had dragged him into the situation, which I found quite amusing,” Ebbs recalled, explaining why they ultimately deleted the video. “It was like, ‘Chris involved himself when he referred to you as his girlfriend on a show and said he would kiss you. But that’s fine.’”

Ebbs elaborated on Siwa’s response, describing it as hurtful.

“I said, ‘You could have just dumped me, and that’s the first thing you texted me. I’m pretty upset by that,’” they recalled. “She responded, ‘You’re insinuating that I left you for Chris,’ and I said, ‘I’m truly sorry if I made it seem that way. I was trying to express my feelings based on what I observed and felt from you.’”

According to Ebbs, Siwa—who identified as a lesbian prior to the show but came out as queer during filming—reiterated her stance that her friendship with Hughes was strictly platonic.

“She kept insisting, ‘Chris and I are just friends, Chris and I are just friends,’” Ebbs claimed. “I told her, ‘That’s news to me.’”

Ebbs conveyed that they communicated to Siwa that while they understand her friendship with Hughes, they were not aware of it until that moment.

Ebbs recounted what they allegedly told Siwa. “In your mind, Chris may not factor into your narrative for why you and I are no longer together, but he is part of mine due to the way both of you acted,” they stated. “If he doesn’t want to take responsibility for his actions towards someone who had a partner, that’s on him. I didn’t initiate this.”

As for why they ultimately removed their video, Ebbs claimed that Siwa informed them she would not come over to talk unless they did.

They reflected on their final conversation with Siwa.

“I felt truly understood by her during that time. I finally got to express everything I felt and experienced,” Ebbs shared. “I told her everything, how hard it was for me, and how I felt like my boundaries had been crossed. I felt genuinely hurt that she did this knowing what I was going through emotionally, considering my past trauma. She seemed to grasp my feelings, and we shared a moment of connection where she became upset and cried.”

Ebbs provided insight into their breakup, stating, “There were issues in our relationship that she brought to my attention that I agreed with. I acknowledged that sometimes when I’m feeling triggered by abandonment, I can behave poorly as a partner.”

“That’s part of my journey, and I agreed with her,” they continued. “I acknowledged that she had every right to reflect on that and express her feelings, as I admitted I wasn’t being a good partner at times.”

Ebbs stated that they and Siwa “came to an agreement” to keep her video up while Siwa would clarify the romantic speculation surrounding her and Hughes.

“She was in the midst of a press tour and said, ‘I’ll squash that. You keep your video up if it’s still being discussed,’” Ebbs reported. “I told her, ‘If it’s still coming up and people are saying you two are together or something, I’m happy to reconnect in a week to clear things up together.’”

“Afterward, I texted her to thank her for the conversation later that day, and she exploded at me for re-uploading the video,” they added. “I was confused because I genuinely thought this was our plan. She kept insisting on Chris, and I kept saying, ‘Chris involved himself before I ever made a video. You need to take responsibility for that.’”

Ebbs concluded their thoughts on the video by stating, “[The way] you both displayed those behaviors in the house; that’s not on me,” they recalled telling Siwa. “Ultimately, I deleted it because I didn’t want to argue with her.”

However, Ebbs became emotional as they recounted how Siwa was “making fun of” them during her appearance on The Viall Files podcast.

Additionally, during their podcast, Ebbs confronted allegations that they had been “grooming” Siwa, who is 21, throughout their relationship due to the six-year age gap between them.

Ebbs stated that they experienced being “groomed by a teacher” from ages 18 to 20, which made the accusations about their relationship with Siwa particularly painful and hard to bear.

“Dealing with that kind of online commentary has been incredibly difficult, as it feels invalidating to those who have genuinely been victims of grooming, as that experience is not something to be taken lightly,” they expressed.

“When discussing the conversation around our age difference, we see male celebrities like Leonardo DiCaprio who notoriously dates women much younger than himself,” they noted. “I believe there’s an element of misogyny at play in these discussions.”

Ebbs reflected on their breakup with Siwa in an interview with Betches.

In the weeks following their split, Ebbs expressed, “I’ve been the most depressed I’ve been in six years, honestly.”

“There have been numerous moments in the past month when I’ve contemplated disappearing because everything feels overwhelmingly heavy,” they stated. “The person who once was my support system has not only vanished but turned against me, allowing hurtful behaviors to continue. Everyone is discussing me, yet no one is speaking with me.”

“I feel unheard, and this is a significant trigger for me due to my past experiences,” they added. “People are labeling me, making assumptions about my character, and being immersed in it feels like it will never end.”

While Ebbs emphasized that they do not believe Siwa cheated, they expressed that their “boundaries were repeatedly crossed in a manner that felt like a breach of trust concerning affection.”

“I believe she made a lapse in judgment, and I was clearly collateral damage in that situation, which was extremely painful,” they explained. “However, I don’t think she had any malicious intent in that interaction.”

Ultimately, however, Ebbs summarized, “I feel as though I’ve been a pawn in this narrative, maneuvered around by Big Brother, JoJo, her PR team, and the tabloids. It feels incredibly disheartening because this isn’t something I sought. At the end of the day, the boring headline is: I’m just heartbroken, having gone through a very messy breakup that I never expected, and I’m now in shock while trying to pick up the pieces of my love life and my existence.”

Meanwhile, Ebbs and the Betches reporter discussed the unique nature of queer breakups compared to heterosexual ones.

“When a man breaks up with you, it’s easier to compartmentalize and think, ‘Okay, cool,’” Ebbs explained. “When a woman does, it feels more personal, leading to thoughts like, ‘Oh, I must be a terrible person.’ It becomes much more intimate and complicated.”

They also remarked that they believe their split from Siwa has drawn more attention than it would have if they were straight.

“I can assure you, if Chris Hughes had a girlfriend or was casually seeing someone outside and acted like that, we wouldn’t be having this conversation,” Ebbs asserted. “I believe there’s a small percentage of this dialogue influenced by either unconscious or overt homophobia.”