Editor’s note: The following interview includes spoilers for the thrilling finale of Dark Winds Season 3.

The explosive finale of Dark Winds Season 3 left us on the edge of our seats, eagerly anticipating the journeys of Lt. Joe Leaphorn (Zahn McClarnon), Jim Chee (Kiowa Gordon), and Sgt. Bernadette Manuelito (Jessica Matten) in the upcoming Season 4. Prior to the dramatic climax of Season 3, Collider had the opportunity to engage in a conversation with executive producer and showrunner John Wirth, who shared his insights on the season’s developments and offered a glimpse into what fans can expect in the future.

John Wirth Explores the Complex Dynamics of Joe and Emma’s Relationship in ‘Dark Winds’ Season 3

MICHAEL JOHN PETTY: This third season has truly been remarkable. Dark Winds has consistently been one of my top shows, largely due to the exceptional writing of its characters. Joe’s character development this season was particularly compelling, leading me to inquire about a question I previously posed to [director] Chris Eyre: Why was it crucial for Season 3 to conclude with Joe in a state of isolation?

JOHN WIRTH: The intention was never to craft that specific narrative. Rather, the story organically unfolded as we progressed through the season. The relationship between Emma and Joe serves as the emotional core of Season 3, and I have always placed significant importance on that dynamic. One of the challenges we faced was integrating non-cop characters into a cop-centric narrative. Throughout my 40-year career in television, I have worked on numerous police dramas, and it’s often difficult to weave in characters who aren’t actively involved in police work. This was a struggle we experienced during Season 1, as we sought to establish Emma’s relevance to the overarching plot. A pivotal moment occurred in Season 2 with the tragic death of their son, which allowed us to explore Joe’s investigation into his own child’s murder, thereby pulling Emma into the narrative in a deeply impactful and emotional manner. This storyline naturally carried over into Season 3 as Joe grappled with the consequences of his actions from the previous season.

As we wrote and developed scenes featuring Joe and Emma, I vividly recall sitting on set while observing a particular scene in their kitchen. It struck me that Joe was exhibiting a degree of selfishness, becoming so absorbed in his haunting experiences and the implications of his past actions that he was neglecting Emma’s emotional needs. In relationships, it’s common for one partner to feel overlooked, and it became clear to me that this was happening to Emma. I crafted a scene where she confronted Joe about his self-centered behavior, leading to a profound moment of realization for both characters. Emma ultimately reached the conclusion that she could no longer continue in this manner, and once someone expresses that sentiment in a marriage, it often signals the need for significant change. If changes don’t occur, the relationship can shift dramatically. This development was essential, as it added layers of drama to their story.

What can we anticipate for Joe and Emma in Season 4 following the tumultuous events of Season 3? Do you believe this separation is a necessary chapter in their love story?

WIRTH: While I wouldn’t categorize it as necessary, the presence of conflict is essential for maintaining a captivating narrative. If Joe and Emma were merely in love and continually supporting one another, the storyline would lack depth and intrigue—there’s only so much to explore when the focus is on mundane matters like coffee preferences. This tension has provided us with a wealth of material to work with. In Season 4, Joe is compelled to reassess his choices and make critical decisions regarding his lifestyle and professional duties. This evolution will yield a rich narrative arc, particularly in relation to his interactions with Emma.

John Wirth Reveals the Creative Process Behind the Iconic Vision Episode of ‘Dark Winds’

One of my standout episodes this season was Episode 6 [“Ábidoo’niidę́ę́ (What We Had Been Told)”], which resonated with many viewers and bore a resemblance to the surreal aesthetics of Twin Peaks.

WIRTH: [Laughs] Absolutely.

What motivated your creative direction for Joe’s spiritual journey in this episode, and why was Season 3 the appropriate time to explore it?

WIRTH: The overarching theme of the season revolved around Joe being haunted by a formidable presence, stemming from his choice to abandon B.J. Vines (John Diehl) in the desert at the conclusion of Season 2. The narrative gradually evolved, and we knew Episode 6 would serve as a pivotal moment for this exploration. However, we faced challenges in determining how to present the story and what its visual representation would entail. During the writing process, Max Herwitz entered the writers’ room with an inspired concept that centered around incorporating a traditional Navajo story, involving children’s play, which could seamlessly link to Joe’s journey. This allowed us to alternate between the tangible world and Joe’s vivid dreams, a motif we introduced in the season premiere. Ultimately, those three narrative threads converged beautifully once we embraced Max’s visionary approach to storytelling.

I must emphasize that this episode is among the highlights of my extensive career in television. I have been involved in thousands of television productions over the years, but the quality of this episode stands out. The script, crafted by Max Hurwitz and Billy Luther, was exceptional, and Erica [Tremblay] directed it masterfully. Zahn and Jenna Elfman delivered outstanding performances, which made the entire experience feel surreal. I watched it again on television on Sunday, and despite having seen it countless times, I was genuinely impressed with how well it translated to the screen—it’s a truly special episode of television.

Indeed, it’s exceptional. In the realm of Dark Winds and other neo-Western series, it truly distinguishes itself through its innovative storytelling techniques, especially in how it intertwines elements of children’s theater with Joe’s internal struggles and personal challenges. The execution was remarkable.

WIRTH: Absolutely, it really came together beautifully. We effectively created the illusion of an endless desert landscape. While we filmed in our usual location, we utilized visual effects to craft a strikingly different environment: a barren expanse devoid of any vegetation and bathed in perpetual sunlight. We experimented with various visual permutations to achieve the ideal look, and at one point, it resembled a surreal album cover. Ultimately, we refined the visuals into what you see now. Alex [Knudson] and his talented team were instrumental in realizing this vision, and I believe they accomplished it spectacularly.

Insights from ‘Dark Winds’ Showrunner John Wirth on the Anticipated Season 4

Shifting our focus a bit, we’ve been teased with the budding relationship between Chee and Bernadette for quite some time. What prompted the decision to keep them apart in Season 3, and how will this separation ultimately fortify their bond moving forward?

WIRTH: The inspiration for Bernadette’s departure was rooted in one of the novels. I can’t recall if it was People of Darkness, Dance Hall of the Dead, or The Sinister Pig, but I believe it was Sinister Pig, where her character was involved with the Border Patrol…

Indeed.

WIRTH: One of my all-time favorite scenes occurs in the manshed, where she informs Leaphorn [that] of her decision to leave at the end of Season 2. This setup created a natural progression for her character. I actually reached out to Zahn because there were concerns that I might be writing her out of the series… [Laughs] Many viewers also speculated about her potential exit from the show. We laid the groundwork for this development at the end of Season 2, allowing us to explore these dynamics in Season 3. I appreciated elements of the novel Sinister Pig and felt they could translate well to our series, so we merged aspects of Dance Hall and Sinister Pig for this season. However, since she is a key character, her absence couldn’t be permanent, leading us to devise a compelling narrative that would bring her back to the reservation.

Now, we face questions regarding her motivations for returning. Did she come back for Chee? Is she rejoining the Navajo Tribal Police? Will she explore a private detective role, akin to Chee’s in Season 2? Or will she engage with the Navajo Nation in a different capacity? This opens up numerous possibilities. Ultimately, conflict is vital for love stories in television, film, and literature. Thus, we had to navigate the tension between Chee and Bernadette for Season 4, and I believe we’ve developed a compelling storyline.

Finally, can you share any hints about what fans should expect from Leaphorn, Chee, and Manuelito in the next season? Are there specific Tony Hillerman novels you plan to adapt?

WIRTH: Yes, we will be adapting The Ghostway.

Dark Winds is currently available for streaming on AMC+.