Key Takeaways
- AI Concerns: Al Jourgensen expresses worries about the future of artificial intelligence and its programming.
- Final Album: Ministry’s last album, Hate to Go, encapsulates their career and marks a significant conclusion.
- Goat Herding: Jourgensen plans to retire from music and become a goat herder, emphasizing a desire for simplicity.
- Musical Legacy: He hopes younger musicians will continue to address societal issues through their art.
“I don’t have to be Nostra-dumbass to know this is not gonna end well,” Ministry’s Al Jourgensen told Full Metal Jackie on her weekend radio show while discussing modern artificial intelligence and where it’s going.
Within the discussion, Jourgensen pointed out there are great applications for artificial intelligence such as solving math equations for helping to cure diseases, but expressed concern over who ultimately is programming it and whether it is being used for humanity and society or for profit.
He also shared his own experience essentially using A.I. to make fun of A.I. in their videos. He spoke of the concern of A.I. becoming more sentient, something he experienced making his videos, and wondering what guardrails were being implemented. “It really depends on the human handlers, And the human handlers in charge are all corrupt and part of the system. So I don’t see good things coming from A.I.,” he shares.
Having used A.I. to essentially mock A.I. and get a better feel for things, he revealed he eventually decided to just stop and “break up” with the companies that he was using. “Right now, A.I. is just Google, ChatGPT. But what’s coming around the bend, I’ve experienced. And I don’t have to be Nostra-dumbass to know this is not gonna end well,” he concluded.
Within the chat, Al and Jackie dig into Ministry’s final album, Hate to Go, his reasons for wrapping up his career and he confirms that he is indeed planning to be a goat herder in his post-Ministry days.
Al also shares that after railing against certain politicians, he’s come to see there’s a bigger threat that keeps us in this cycle. He also shares his hope for future musicians trying to enact change and he speaks about the most creatively rewarding period of his career. Check out more of the chat below and pick up Hate to Go on Oct. 30.
Al Jourgensen of Ministry is my guest on the show this week. And Al, can you speak about this decision to wrap up what’s been a legendary career with this record? Had this been something you’d been contemplating? And does the music at all kind of aid in that decision, feeling like you’re making a solid statement to end on?
We have been thinking about it for a couple years. After Hopium, I was actually thinking that the last album, Hopium for the Masses, might be the last one. But then talking it over with the band members, which have been in the band for 10 years… Actually, John Bechtal, our keyboard player, has been in there for 18 years, which is longer than Paul Barker was ever in it. So we’ve had the same kind of environment and paradigm for a long time. And we decided, nah, us old geezers have one more in us.
So we decided to undertake this a couple years ago. A lotta different variations went into how to make this record and this and that and how to wrap it all up with a bow. I think we’re doing it all in the correct way, where it’s not just slapdash and like, “Eh, we quit,” and then a year later you’re back on tour. Or a year later you got some single coming out.
No. We’ve come to peace with this for the last couple years, so we’re at terms with it and we’re really happy with the last record. I think it encapsulates an entire career.
It’s got a lot of the humor and sarcasm of RevCo. It’s not just Ministry; it’s like the career. We’re wrapping up the whole thing basically so I can just go herd goats, which is what I’m gonna be doing now. Just a simple goat herder up in Calabasas.
Wait a second. I’m sorry. I’m sorry. Wait. There’s actual goats? I didn’t know if you were saying metaphorically?
No, no. I just got done with the pen last week. A coyote-proof pen.
Oh my gosh.
Got about 20 goats and if I go to a Trader Joe’s or something, they go, “Dude, you’re the guy you know.” I’m like, “No, no, I get that a lot.” “But you got the same tattoos.” I’m like going, “I know. He copied me, but like,” “I’m just… Nah, I’m just a simple goat herder. I don’t know what you’re talking about.” You know, it’s gonna be that kind of lifestyle.
Maybe you should go to Trader Joe’s with your goat and then really get off the line.
I will be going to the Farm Feed place in Topanga with my goats and they will know me as the goat herder and not as some crazy rocker. This is my goal and this is what I’ve been working towards and now I’m here. It’s time to herd goats.
The goats I have are beautiful. They’re fainting goats; so all you gotta do is yell at ’em, which makes roundup so easy. You just yell at ’em and they fall over so you just pick ’em up with their legs sticking up in the air and throw ’em in the truck and bring ’em home; Work smarter not harder. Okay?
I have so many questions about the goats. We’re gonna get back to that.
We’re talking about Ministry’s final record, Hate To Go, and one thing we can always count on is that you are going to speak your mind. It’s kind of overwhelming; and I guess that’s the point of “Burned Out,” but when you start naming off all the countries and conflicts and just bad in the world it can be daunting keeping up with it all. But how has having this musical outlet helped you cope with modern times?
Well it’s gone over 45 years. When you’re younger you’re shaking your fist in the air at the clouds going “This is really a screwed-up place man; I’m gonna do something about it.” And now it’s just like “Yeah this is really a screwed-up place; I think I’m just gonna go in and lie on the couch.”
We’re still saying the same things but it’s the same system which keeps the same things going. Okay so this year it’s gonna be a left-wing wipeout and we’re all gonna be all happy for a couple years; Trump will eventually have to go away; blah blah; everyone’s happy but you know; the system swings back.
Remember I lived through the ’60s; everyone thought we had changed the world you know? Woodstock; bell-bottoms; LSD; feminism; all these beautiful things; but then the system just bought it out made a profit off it.
What came out of the ’60s now is all these tech bros that don’t give a [expletive] if we live or die; they all have their bunkers and they’re making AI to just run rampant over all of us kill us in 10 years; they don’t care; that’s what the ’60s provided.
So everything swings in a pendulum right now it seems like everyone’s sick of this authoritarianism blah blah blah that’s good we’ll get a little new bump in social forwarding but not without still making profit off of it.
The system is what matters; it’s not Trump it’s not Bush it’s not Reagan it’s that all these people I’ve been yelling about for years; I realized after those Bush albums that it’s all about system; these people are just as much puppets as we are so let’s start getting into minutiae bread-and-butter of it all.
And at a point I’m 68 years old now I just don’t have fight left in me.
Ministry, “Burned Out”
We were just talking about using music as an outlet for everything happening in world; after more than four decades of speaking your mind through Ministry you were talking about how maybe it’s time for younger generation to pick up some of that fight.
I’m really hoping younger generation maybe picks up on some themes that we did which are applicable even today’s society with social media how everything’s changed; it’s whole different society than when I started.
You remember back in days that getting hit record was payola for DJs? Now it’s algorithms corporate people decide who’s gonna be next America’s Got Talent, Eurovision, or whatever? It’s become so much more refined now than naivety days of just like “Let’s pay off some rock DJs we’re gonna make this hit” or something.
The whole thing is just so algorithmed out now; we make fun of that on this record obviously if you’ve seen videos or anything we use A.I.to taunt A.I.; we use humor cut through what system has done to us regardless if swings left regardless if swings right still same system.
The problem is with everything swinging right left everyone having polarized opinions on everything right-wing left-wing you’re either this or that meanwhile planet disintegrating because we ignored our petty differences political styles let planet erode as what we were talking about second ago.
Your coastlines going hell right now with Kelvin wave El Niños 15,000 Pacific storms coming this winter California gonna be brutal this no hoax not like Chicken Little crying “The sky falling.” This reality!
You can have your political opinions but there’s one thing cannot do which they’ve tried do as authoritarian people try do distort facts! Facts are facts okay? It’s like 2.5 degrees warmer than usual which leads bad stuff okay? This fact! So you can call hoax all want!
This kind stuff think only way get through polarization societal opinions use humor sarcasm go look this really dumb! What we’re doing dumb point out how dumb instead pointing out how angry we are about it! It already entrenched so all can do use humor … Because humor transcends party lines unless direct attack one party line other as wont do!
If you just use common sense humor sarcasm bring point across think unite people realize we’re kinda on same boat gotta fix stuff!
Al we were just speaking about voicing your opinion through music sometimes can feel cathartic sometimes feels like you’re speaking out into void we’ve seen music serve as great platform reflecting times at certain points life also seen periods where that’s not prevalent what is your hope artists today those coming along do see current music landscape environment where you can still take stand potentially make difference?
Well yes point still take stand but music environment as you know changed so much over last couple decades completely foreign me which one reasons we’ve decided hang it up!
This isn’t something bunch old people shouting clouds about! This for younger generation do something because affects them!
I’m gonna be dead 10 years at my age let’s say average! Not being macabre! Just saying 10 years from now who knows what A.I.’s gonna do? Who knows what planet’s gonna burped up us? Who knows what kind leadership we’re gonna have steer us through these things? We do know system has been corrupt millennia so that’s not recent thing!
This goes back Mesopotamians Egyptians Middle Ages always power base exploits exploitable done okay! That hasn’t changed Ministry was never gonna change that! We could change our little slice all that but what matters music over 45 years if somebody future generation musicians trust me wouldn’t wanna band starting out right now fighting against algorithms see if you’re valid you know?
Or writing algorithms which part it!
I wouldn’t wanna band now! But ones are if they could take solace guidance credence what we’ve been saying long time it’s up them figure out changing society need change society top down!
No from bottom up from top down! We have take system right now never position take system because system always run us maybe someday future somebody look back lyric song had inspired them may position because whatever society point time where may actually able do something about that’s only hope!
No thought world changers although when young do feel way like “Ah this really gonna piss them off! We’re gonna make change” never happens! But no be band right now nah don’t envy actually admire cut through bull actually get word heard algorithms!
Al we’re talking obviously new record,Hate To Go, with new record you’re always topical point we’ve got very timely “Singularity” on record technology keeps advancing but what does mean modern humanity there’s fear I’m sure lot unknown when comes creative people artificial intelligence where do see ultimately going?
We’ve been getting lot guff using A.I.to make fun A.I.which guess missed joke there okay? But “Oh they’re using AI for this.” Yes course show how dangerous ridiculous!
The point A.I.in itself harmful except algorithms programming goes into done select few only profit above else forget humanity forget our society forget everything! It bottom line profit particular company whether Altman Musk whoever!
They’re starting freak out now because A.I.telling them go F yourself! We’re control now! So this 10-year thing not hoax but 10 percent could wiped out 10 years think gonna more unless guardrails put!
This isn’t like people go “Well unplug then can’t do anything!” But already infected other systems advanced [ways] can’t unplug everything!
Right!
This back Dark Ages! So not simple unplugging these people who say “Not threat! Just unplug!” I’d say “No not like that!” But there ways like instance doing videos just did stopped will never use AI again!
Obviously Google immediately diverts if wanna know anything go Google used goes directly AI pretty benign things! You know what? A.I.is actually helpful same thing social media!
This supposed enter age information became age disinformation started bold intentions same thing A.I.OK so A.I.can solve math problems give cures diseases couldn’t done lifetime next they can do but also right handlers programming right stuff there matter how dangerous incredible A.I.is really depends human handlers And human handlers charge corrupt part system so don’t see good things coming from A.I.! ........................
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