“Every other record has its problems and it’s never this unicorn-like. This is one of those impossible stories.”

On Thursday (June 4), Henry Rollins joined Loudwire Nights to dive deep into a significant moment in the continued legacy of a band he’s loved since he was a teenager: The Cramps.

You can listen to the full conversation in the audio player near the end of this article.

Last week, it was announced that the Cramps’ record label, Vengeance Records, is being resurrected by a newly-formed company, The Cramps Inc. The first release from it will be a never-before-heard record from the band taken from a recording session in 1977, Gravest Gravy.

Along with a group of other like-minded individuals, Rollins is deeply involved in this new moment in the Cramps’ career.

But for Rollins, the story started long before now.

“My best friend, Ian MacKaye, he went to the cool school,” Rollins shared with Loudwire Nights‘ Chuck Armstrong.

“All of his friends were people who ended up in early Dischord Records bands. He heard cool music way before I did and thanks to Ian, I heard this cool music that his cool friends were turning him onto. So we’re driving in his car one day, he’s got the mixtape going, and what’s this band doing this song ‘Human Fly’? I was like, ‘Whoa?! What’s that?’ Blew my mind. He goes, ‘Oh, that’s the Cramps. You ever heard of them?’ No, we see each other every day, I’m not going to hear something if he doesn’t know about it.”

MacKaye shared everything he knew about the Cramps with Rollins, including a live recording of a show he snuck into in February of 1979. As Rollins told the story, MacKaye crawled into a window at the Hall of Nations on the campus of Georgetown University and recorded the Cramps’ performance with his mom’s tape recorder.

“It’s the first copy of a tape I ever made,” Rollins recalled.

“Anyway, I turned 18 in February of ’79, so I can go to clubs. In April of ’79, the Cramps played a small bar called LBJ. I don’t remember it being sold out, but it’s a bar that services as a venue. You’ve probably been to at least 1,000 of those where the stage is kind of tucked away and the Christmas lights go around the banister and the parquet floor and the PA is kind of just screwed into the wall next to the TV or something. It was a very low-tech scene.”

Rollins paid $3 and saw his first club show just a few months after his 18th birthday.

To see these four very interesting looking people, I mean, they’re all kind of rugged and beautiful and charismatic in their own way, but it’s like a live monster movie, crazy sitcom playing out in front of you.

“I stood next to Ian and the stage is about a foot high and you can smell them,” he said.

“You can walk right up there. I stood in front of the Cramps, which is Bryan Gregory to my left, and then Lux [Interior] in the middle, Nick Knox at the back and [Poison] Ivy on my right — and they started playing.”

He interrupts the memory to say that a few years ago, he came across a recording of this exact show on eBay, so of course he bought it and he was happy to hear that the show was as cool as he remembered.

“They play this amazing music and to see these four very interesting looking people, I mean, they’re all kind of rugged and beautiful and charismatic in their own way, but it’s like a live monster movie, crazy sitcom playing out in front of you,” Rollins expressed.

“They’re literally right in front of you. I remember during the song ‘Rockin’ Bones,’ when Bryan Gregory screams, ‘Raw bones! Raw bones!,’ his acne scars turned red. And I’m like, ‘Oh, okay, this is real.’ And I kind of staggered out of that show and I don’t think I’ve ever recovered. I say that about that band and that show; I never got better.”

Unearthing the Cramps’ Gravest Gravy + Bringing It to Life

Along with Rollins and MacKaye, there is a small group of people involved in Vengeance Records today, including the three people in charge of The Cramps Inc.: Poison Ivy, film producer Jimmy Maslon and Larry Hardy who owns and operates In the Red Records.

Rollins and Hardy have worked together in the past, most recently releasing Demo Kicks, a 12-inch vinyl featuring newly-unearthed recordings from the U.K. Subs.

“Larry and I are, as I like to say, we’re in cahoots,” Rollins told the Loudwire Nights audience.

“We’re always up to something and we’re both vinyl nerds and we love the rare stuff and there’s all these bands that we like. He and I are in touch all the time working on projects and whatever else.”

Hardy and his wife Robin just so happened to have built a friendship with Lux and Ivy and Hardy had done a lot of work on behalf of The Cramps over the years.

“When he calls Ivy she’ll call back; when I call I get crickets,” Rollins laughingly said.

When Lux passed away in 2009, Hardy stayed in touch with Ivy and kept his eye on her making sure she was okay. One day Rollins told Hardy that he would like to help Ivy archive whatever she had in her house.

“Maybe get the tapes out of the garage because recording tapes shouldn’t be in a garage; it should be in an HVAC climate-controlled environment which I have,” he stated.

“[I told Larry,] I’d like to work on those archives at no cost. I just want to do the right thing. That’s what it’s all about. So he brought her over to my place and my manager Heidi was there and we just spent the afternoon talking about all of this … We get it in our minds — and it’s probably Larry’s idea — but I did say it to him at one point: Vengeance Records has to come back. 2026 is going to be the year of Vengeance. We’re going to get Vengeance back on the road.”

Once Ivy was okay with getting the tapes out of her garage Hardy started going through making an inventory of what she had. He came across a pack of quarter-inch tapes and asked Ivy what it was. As she explained it was an idea The Cramps had for an album called Gravest Gravy, but they ended up shelving it.

I did say it to him at one point: Vengeance Records has to come back. 2026 is going to be the year of Vengeance. We’re going to get Vengeance back on the road.

“You find out that in October 1977 when The Cramps go into studio Nick Knox is newly in band; they go into Memphis Tenn., Ardent Studios with great visionary maniac Alex Chilton,” Rollins said.

“Their idea is they’re going to record their first A-side which is going to be ‘TV set,’ a great song of theirs; then they’re going to record whatever else. Alex Chilton says: ‘How about this? Let’s just record every song you’ve got; we’ll just pick out best of litter.’ And so luckily The Cramps did just that; they ended up with ton music.”

More than a decade after recording Lux and Ivy decided to mix some songs. In 1989 they went into studio North Hollywood; Chilton mixed few songs Memphis; these mixes were going to be Gravest Gravy.

“They had name; they had tracks; they had cover photo taken by great sadly recently passed away Stephanie Chernikowski who also did Gravest Hits, that great portrait shot,” Rollins shared.

“Gravest Gravy, idea is well here’s more gravy. Here’s more those October ’77 sessions. Basically record was going to be love letter fans bringing everyone back around beginning October ’77 Memphis; here’s more it. And for as I say for reasons lost time project got shelved.”

When Hardy found tapes Ivy’s garage he took them Brian Kehew who Rollins described as “tape guy extraordinaire over at Warner Bros.” They baked transferred them see what was on them; sent digital files Rollins after picked jaw off floor offered help Hardy go through various mixes see if might able reconstruct Gravest Gravy.

“From lots nights listening carefully lot note taking I’m hearing vocals Ivy’s guitar basically get pocket last mix every song it’s right there,” he said.

“I contact Ian MacKay whose ears much better than mine said ‘Okay you’re going other pair ears this.’ He’s like ‘Of course.’

After both agreed right mixes MacKaye took tracks Don Zientara Inner Ear Studios Arlington Va.—who recorded Teen Idles MacKaye’s band started ’78—did some EQ level work. From there everything sent engineer Pete Lyman Infrasonic Sound Nashville.

“To watch Pete work on this was honor joy he’s so good,” Rollins enthused.

“I’m never doing another project without him again; I mean he’s best I’ve ever worked with. We make mastering send Larry send up Ian everyone’s happy.”

As unreal as this story may seem average fan Rollins never shied away from fantastical nature how everything unfolded.

“I’ve been involved lot records,” he said.

“I’m them I’ve produced compiled whatever many years bunch don’t think anything comes close this one.”

The Importance + Necessity of Preserving Music History

As Rollins said earlier conversation this all started out simple desire help Ivy archive her recordings. This idea preservation remains duty for Rollins something he has taken seriously since young age.

“I do lot archival work bands artists—some still us some not—and that magnetic tape clothing setlists receipts invoices summons whatever it fan mail all kinds things,” he explained.

“In my opinion have anthropomorphized past elusive wants get away carbon-based wants disintegrate wants go ‘No!’ wants dance ether disappear That’s why flyer will eventually turn dust You can slow down but it eventual That’s why there acid-free environments that’s why there HVAC systems on I’ve invested mightily all that I’ve preserved my own history which very little interest me but it’s duty Everyone else’s history far more interesting me That’s what I’ve been doing since 1979.”

The moment began occurred when Rollins MacKaye were walking down M Street Washington D.C., taping up Teen Idles flyers light poles.

“Someone had been following us ripping them off light poles think we put some them back again,” he recalled.

I’ve preserved my own history which very little interest me but it’s duty Everyone else’s history far more interesting me That’s what I’ve been doing since 1979.

“That really offended me Like ‘Oh oh you’re trying say we’re not here You’re trying erase us?’ said ‘Okay then I’m just going keep two every flyer can find.’ And that’s why have two every Teen Idles flyer then figured out two tape decks copy tapes [of] Teen Idles’ band practice ‘Hey we made tape let borrow that tape copy Ian started doing same thing because now have Bad Brains live tapes Cramps hey guy Maryland he’s got tape let’s borrow it Let’s start preserving history.”

Then Rollins joined Black Flag found boxes flyers started organize those He’d hang out bands like Husker Du ask them their flyers.

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“Ian I we are these preservers history,” he said.
“Ian more DC-area beat I’m kind you know bands like That’s kind what see my job I’m fourth quarter my life want have some fun this all part that … It must done think stuff more important than next meal We cannot drop torch fire can’t go out story must told mission must accomplished damn fun.”