If you surveyed a group of rock fans and musicians on matters pertaining to the electric guitar, eight out of 10 would probably tell you Eddie Van Halen was one of the most technically brilliant and innovative musicians to ever pick up the instrument.

The Jesus and Mary Chain’s Jim and William Reid would be the vocal minority, with the latter claiming the late Van Halen axman “ruined rock guitar” with his expertise.

The brothers and co-founders of the Scottish alt-rock band — whose combination of ’60s pop melodies and noisy guitar squalls became a cornerstone of shoegaze in the ’80s — expressed their disdain for Van Halen in an interview with Stereogum last weekend prior to their headlining performance at New York’s Total Bummer festival.

READ MORE: Van Halen Albums Ranked Worst to Best

What Did the Jesus and Mary Chain Say About Van Halen?

Jim Reid, the band’s lead singer, explained how minimalism and a relative lack of technical knowledge can shape a guitarist’s style for the better.

“Not having a lot of equipment actually forces you to be more inventive,” he said. “I can play guitar, but only just. It’s kinda deliberate. I play guitar to the level that I need to play guitar. And sometimes knowing too much about making music gets in the way, and it ends up back to Eddie Van Halen again, do you know what I mean?”

William Reid, the Jesus and Mary Chain’s lead guitarist, then added: “I think guitar players should never learn scales. I think the worst guitar players in the world — like Eddie Van Halen. I can’t stand Eddie Van Halen’s guitar playing. I think he ruined rock guitar all through the ’80s and ’90s ’cause so many people copied him. And I just couldn’t get any of that playin’ as fast as you fuckin’ can and crammin’ as many notes in one second as you could. And I listen to Peter Hook’s bass riffs, and I think that’s a thousand times better than anything Eddie Van Halen could ever conjure up.”

But Wait … Could Eddie Van Halen Even Read Music?

For what it’s worth, it sounds like William Reid doesn’t actually hate Eddie Van Halen. Rather, he hates Ratt, Poison, and the myriad other glam metal bands whose fiery lead guitarists were nipping at Van Halen’s heels.

It’s also worth noting that Eddie Van Halen freely admitted he never learned how to read music and didn’t even take guitar lessons. (He took piano lessons as a kid.) And for all of his jaw-dropping technical innovations, Van Halen often couched his incredible riffs and solos within catchy, three-and-a-half-minute pop songs.

READ MORE: Who Are the ‘Big 4’ of Rock Guitar?

Jim Reid also expressed his dislike of the term shoegaze, telling Stereogum, “Shoegaze, I’ve got a problem with that just because it doesn’t actually exist. ‘Cause it was some clown at the NME made that up.”

Likewise, the members of Van Halen would have rejected the dreaded “glam metal” — or worse, “hair metal” — label that their music helped inspire. Perhaps the Reids and the Van Halens aren’t so different after all.