Editor’s note: The below interview contains spoilers for House of the Dragon Season 3 Episode 4.

We’re at the halfway point of House of the Dragon Season 3, and already the HBO fantasy spin-off has made some decisive moves with its characters on the overall chessboard that is Westeros. Although Rhaenyra (Emma D'Arcy) has definitively claimed the Iron Throne, the strife she’s inherited in King’s Landing is only the half of it. With the knowledge that Ormund Hightower (James Norton) has deceived her — not only by sending her a fake Daeryon Targaryen but also by seizing the adjacent town of Tumbleton instead of retreating — it’s clear that Season 3 is setting up an inevitable clash between these armies, one that could have devastating consequences for the smallfolk caught in the middle.

Ahead of the premiere of Episode 4, “Tumbleton,” Collider had the opportunity to speak with Norton about playing House of the Dragon‘s newest villain and why he wanted to take “big swings” with Ormund’s most pivotal scenes. Over the course of the interview, which you can read below, the actor breaks down that memorable bath moment, the intricacies of Ormund’s admittedly “toxic” relationship with Daeron (Benjamin Evan Ainsworth), what his opinion of House Targaryen and their dragons reveals about his inner nature, and more.

COLLIDER: This episode is so fabulous for your character, starting with the very memorable scene in the bath. What sort of energy did you want to bring to that scene? So often, we associate nudity with vulnerability, and here it feels like he’s using it as a form of intimidation.

JAMES NORTON: Yes, he certainly is. What was lovely about this scene was it was an opportunity to see Ormund really enjoy being Ormund. A lot of the time, we see him very stressed, particularly later on in the series. As the stakes rise, he gets more and more stressed. Obviously, this is a man who lives at a high level of stress. You get a sense that he’s hyper-aware and hypersensitive to certain smells and sounds, and he has a lot of OCD, and so it was really lovely to see him delighting in his power and his playfulness.

What was really great in the scene, for me, was that I was able to give them versions of it where I basically said to the director [Claire Kilner], “Can I go quite camp with this?” And again, testament and credit to the creators of the show, they were like, “Yeah, just go. See how far you can go, and have it still exist within the world.” Getting out of that bath, I got campier and campier until I was literally cocking my head and going, “Is she a queen, or is she a bitch with a dragon?” It felt like I was going so ludicrously big, and then they went with it! They were brave in the edit, and they were like, “Let’s make this character delicious.” And as a result, he kind of feels into all different facets of the contradictory mess that he is, and I just think, “Good for them.”

Sometimes, as an actor, if you don’t trust the creators, you don’t give them the wide parameters of performance, and on this, I gave them very wide parameters. I gave them very subtle and nuanced and very big and panto, and generally, they went with the big swings, and I think the show and the character benefit as a result.

James Norton Nearly Fainted During Ormund’s Sword-Swinging Scene

“Your body just doesn’t know where the hell it’s at…”

You brought up Ormund’s emotions, and it does call to mind the scene where he gets the raven from Harrenhal. As much as there has been this question hanging over the nature of Ormund and Daeron’s relationship, Daeron is the one who sees Ormund go still and immediately tells everybody else to get out of the line of fire. What did you want to convey not just through Ormund’s reaction, swinging a sword at that table over and over again, but also what Daeron’s response reveals about the history between these characters?

NORTON: It was actually quite a tough scene to shoot because what happens, usually, when you do those types of explosions, those types of physical moments, which are very important in the script, you usually do the scene up to the moment of explosion, and then the shot to shoot the explosion is a pick-up or a pop or a special, whatever you want to call it, so the camera’s set up in a certain way. So after we shot the bulk of the scene—the meat of the dialogue—and they called action, I would just be smashing the table and then I would go back to being calm before smashing it again. Your body just doesn’t know where the hell it’s at because you’re going high adrenaline to nothing to high adrenaline. By the end, I was nearly fainting. My head was spinning. I had a terrible headache. It was kind of weirdly taxing. I don’t know. I felt really drained by the end of it.

In terms of what that scene tells us about those characters’ dynamics, it was fun for me because it allowed us to show what lies beneath Ormund’s control—what happens when that control is undermined—and how dangerous that can be. Up until that point, we sense this kind of fury bubbling beneath; we don’t actually see it manifest until now. Allowing it to manifest was really important as well as contextualizing how people respond to him—particularly Daeron.

There’s also a sinister part to this situation: how many times has that rage been directed at Daeron? Daeron is still very young. He has been raised by Ormund who is as close to a father figure as Daeron has ever known. There is real pain and tragedy in that moment because he’s looking at that young servant saying “Get out because otherwise you’re going to get hurt.” Implicit in that act is “Because I’ve been hurt before as well. So just get out.” There’s real selflessness there—he doesn’t leave himself behind but stays to protect Ormund against himself and others. This shows both stoicism and courage from Daeron in that moment while acknowledging his own suffering at Ormund’s hands.

This dynamic truly highlights how toxic their relationship is, because despite its abusive elements there exists love between them. Daeron stays partly out of affection for Ormund—it’s almost like Stockholm syndrome where he’s under duress yet still loves him. For me personally this complexity made excavating their relationship all the more exciting.

James Norton Reveals The Truth At The Heart Of Ormund’s Hatred Of Dragons

“He sees them as beasts — not just dragons but dragon riders themselves.”

Ormund is among those characters on this show who clearly dislike dragons while making those feelings known—yet when Tessarion approaches him slightly he physically recoils from fear. What message did you want to convey regarding his attitude towards dragons juxtaposed with that reaction?

NORTON: We did one version where I literally fell to ground recoiling from dragon fearfully. In Episode 3 when High Septon describes dragons as an “impure force,” Rhaenyra asks for ordination but receives feedback stating dragons are impure—they destroy rather than create. For all his theatricality alongside fun playful aspects, there exists within him this sinister side where he’s almost fascistic regarding Hightower’s cause. He perceives Daeron’s Targaryen lineage as tainted blood—seeing them as savages—and believes they should be eradicated from existence which leads down dark paths akin almost ethnic cleansing thoughts regarding superiority between families.

I guess his attitude towards dragons ties into this belief system—he views them not merely as creatures but rather beasts along with their riders themselves—savages unworthy for thrones.This goes deep into his character revealing darker sides alongside playful elements.

Tumblestone obviously resonates with book fans anticipating future events ahead—can you tease any major battle scenes coming later this season?

NORTON: We’ve already experienced incredible battles thus far without secrets regarding series delivering muscular excitement fans crave! Now entering Episode four,Ormund remains proud committed towards cause!The moment he pretends fealty towards Rhaenyra while Daemon forces him kneel shows how insincere he truly is having not returned Oldtown yet!

I’ll say setup appears quite spicy!He intentionally uses human shields!This includes women children protecting himself Hightower army Templeton! So much awaits us ahead—I’m uncertain what exactly but thrilling series ahead!

The new episodes fromHouse Of The Dragon‘s third season premiere Sundays on HBO HBO Max.